The YoungWorld

Fort Europe · Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:11 pm Post subject: The YoungWorld Guilds

I propose this as the first debate for the new forum in the new Debate Hall, within which the paint is still drying so be careful not to lean on any walls.

This debate, in keeping with the new forum and the rebuilding of The YoungWorld as a region both on NationStates and here on the forum, will cover the delicate matter of The YoungWorld Guilds.

Acknowledging that The YoungWorld now has two guilds, The Knights and The Assassins, this debate will be to argue the finer points of both Guilds in the hope of improving both and enticing forum members to choose to join one or the other.

Asserting the fact that The Assassins are quite obviously the superior Guild, but also recognising that The Knights also have a usefulness within The YoungWorld.

Participants of this debate will obviously support the Guild they belong to, while unaligned forum members may choose sides, or argue against the joining of either as they choose.

Normal debating rules apply, posts must be a minimum of one paragraph or six lines of text. Please try to support your arguments with evidence where necessary.
_________________

scrivneria · Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:18 am Post subject:

I posit that the Knights are superior to the Assassins and make this assertion based upon the following points:

1) That the Knights are committed to the utmost good for TYW and the world at large through chivalric principle and the goodwill of our honorable hearts.

2) That the Knights have a patron deity, Dastan, the God of Knighthood who oversees our work and rewards knightly deeds well done.

3) As Knights we are bound to a code of honor, and therefore will not stoop so low as the Assassins in the pursuit of our goals.

I dare say that any one of these points should be sufficient to make my case, however, acknowledging that this is the debate hall I shall of course allow retort from the Assassins who choose to comment.
_________________
[

With my seal and blessing -Scrivneria, Grand Master

Fort Europe · Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:51 am Post subject:

You make three points, all of which are indeed valid and correct in fact, but you are missing the bigger picture here Scriv. Ultimately you should be asking the question, is that really what members of The YoungWorld want?

Do they want to follow your strict and in my opinion rather oppressive 'code of honour'? Are they willing enough, or even gullible enough to want to worship your false god? and do they really believe the Knights can offer something better than true freedom?

The answer to all those questions I am sure is a resounding No. Codes of honour are just rules, nothing more and nothing less. They may have a fancy name to hide behind, but when it comes down to it they are just rules like any other. Rules are designed to restrict and oppress, created by small minded people who want everyone to play the game their way, and throw a tantrum when someone comes up with a better idea. And to be 'bound' to them, as though tied down just reeks of oppression to me.

You talk of Gods, Deities and Overseers... this is nothing more than religion at work. Religion such as those that have divided whole worlds in the past. Forcing individual beliefs on others, forcing others to fear one god or the other with the same promises of salvation from evil. Entire wars have been fought over a difference of believe, not just over arguments of different Gods, but over the same God as well. The only evil here is religion its self.

The Knights are meddling with things that should never be meddled with, with their rules and their principles, they want to tell you what to do, what to think and they haven't the right.

If members of The YoungWorld freely choose to join the Knights, I can accept that as their choice of course, for the are following the course they believe to be true, however misguided.

However, the oppression of the Knights should never be forced on others, least of all the Assassins. For in the Assassins we accept members for their individuality, their own beliefs, and nurture that freedom to choose for themselves. Freedom is the key to happiness. Freedom from the oppression for rules and religion, free from corruption and your 'binding code of conduct.'

The Assassins will fight for that freedom, fight to protect individuality and the freedom to think and believe as individuals.
_________________

scrivneria · Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:24 pm Post subject:

As the code of honor followed by the Knights of TYW is subject to ratification and change by all of the membership, I can hardly accept your description of it as a chafing and restrictive system. Certainly there will be those among our number who disagree with certain points, but al 2/3 majority vote (with a quorum of members voting) is required to enact our code into Knightly Law, which of course, will then be subject to revision any time the Grand Mastership changes hands, or any time more than 3 nations have a grievance with a specific part of our code.

The issue of religion is thorny it is true, but worship of Dastan is not required to receive his blessing. As the god of Knighthood he is revered within the borders of Scrivneria, and all who conduct themselves as Knights will of course receive blessing, but actual religious involvement is a choice that each person, and each nation must make for themselves. It's a benefit scenario, not a requirement.

As our membership has a hand in the construction of the order itself as well as the choice of how they will or will not incorporate the blessing of Dastan upon themselves, I can hardly say that joining the Knighthood would put a person in a position of being told how to think. Indeed, the power of critical thinking and ability to clarify one's own needs is essential to being able to serve the greater good. If we cannot care for ourselves, we cannot begin the important work of helping others to find their greatest and highest wellness.

As for the "freedom" of the Assassins, it sounds a great deal like unstructured anarchy in the interest of self-gain. That in and of itself creates a number of problems with even having a unified goal, let alone achieving such a thing.

If each comes to the Knighthood as they are, they will find the resources and support to evolve into the sort of nation and individual they wish to become. From what I can see the only benefit to joining the Assassins would be that through a complete lack of discussing structure one is permitted to remain exactly as they are - implying that no striving for self-growth is necessary.
_________________
[

With my seal and blessing -Scrivneria, Grand Master

Fort Europe · Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:39 am Post subject:

So according to you Scrivneria, actively worshiping Dastan is not compulsory but he will bless you anyway... so what if I don't want to be blessed by this Dastan guy? Will you except members who follow other religions, such as the worshipers of Johanna, who claim Dastan was a traitor and a coward? I'm not saying that these people are correct, but I wonder if they would be accepted as readily as everyone else?

I take issue with your insistence that the Assassins do not strive for self growth. The Assassins have always maintained a 'dead mans shoes' policy when dealing with growth. Life is always about improving and expanding, and the most ambitious and creative are rewarded. The Assassins do of course have a structure, as there are indeed structures within nature. The point is that individuals are free to choose for themselves, to address their own codes of conduct and not be subject to one set of general rule, rules with may work for some but never all.

The Assassins do not hold to just one method of creating change, voting is all well and good when such votes are fair and equally contested, but results can be fixed, be bias, or entirely one sided. If individual members of the Assassins Guild are unhappy with the status quo, then then it is their duty to change it by any means necessary, and how they go about it is entirely their choice, and they are rewarded for doing so. Any member can be challenged, even myself, by any other. That Scrivneria is true freedom.
_________________